Arrow Financial Services's Deposition:ID Theft Case: Excerpt

David A. Szwak

Arrow Financial Services's Deposition:ID Theft Case: Excerpt

Postby David A. Szwak » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:07 pm

1

3 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
IN AND FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
4 MARSHALL DIVISION

CAROL MIXON and ) CIVIL ACTION NO.
7 BILLY MIXON ) 299CV00092

VS. ) MAGISTRATE-JUDGE MCKEE
9 ) JUDGE HEARTFIELD

10 EQUIFAX CREDIT )
INFORMATION SERVICES, )
11 INC., ET AL )

16 ORAL DEPOSITION OF BRIAN CUTLER
December 8, 1999
17

2

1 APPEARANCES

2 For the Plaintiff(s):
3 Mr. David A. Szwak
Bodenheimer, Jones & Szwak
5 610 Marshall Street, Suite 905
Shreveport, Louisiana 71101
6

For the Defendant Arrow Financial Services:
7 Mr. Mitch Motley
8 BROWN MCCARROLL & OAKS HARTLINE, L.L.P.
1127 Judson Road, Suite 220
9 Longview, Texas 75601-5157

10 For the Defendant Experian Information
Solutions, Inc.:
11 Ms. Julie C. Jared
12 Jones, DAY, REAVIS & POGUE
2727 North Harwood Street
13 Dallas, Texas 75201-1515

14 -AND-

15 Mr. Daniel J. McLoon
Jones, DAY, REAVIS & POGUE
16 555 West Fifth Street, Suite 4600
Los Angeles, California 90013-1025
17
For the Defendant J. C. Penney:
18
Mr. William C. Dunnill
19 LAW OFFICES OF JOEL J. STEED
5910 N. Central Expy., Suite 650
20 Dallas, Texas 75206

21 For the Defendant Beneficial:

22 Mr. Jeffrey L. Doggett
KIRKLIN, BOUDREAUX & LEONARD
23 1100 Louisiana, Suite 1400
Houston, Texas 77001-5233

5 EXAMINATION

6 MR. Szwak:

7 Q. Hi, Mr. Cutler. I'm David Szwak. I

8 introduced myself to you. I represent Carol and

9 Billy Mixon in this case. Are you somewhat

10 familiar with this lawsuit?

11 A. Somewhat.

12 Q. Tell me if you can your full name and

13 address.

14 A. Brian Cutler, 602 North Armstrong

15 Court, Buffalo Grove, Illinois 60089.

16 Q. By whom are you employed?

17 A. Arrow Financial Services.

18 Q. What do you do for them?

19 A. I'm the chief technology officer.

20 Q. And what exactly are your job duties

21 there?

22 A. I pretty much make sure the systems,

23 they keep continue to run, et cetera, and I do some

24 operations.

25 Q. Are you part of the management



6

1 structure, or do you actually handle any of the

2 collection activities?

3 A. I handle very little collection

4 activity, mostly management.

5 Q. Do you actually have any collection

6 files that you personally handle?

7 A. I will handle, you know, if there's a

8 dispute.

9 Q. Sometimes if it's a fuss with a

10 customer or consumer?

11 A. Correct.


12 Q. That gives rise for the need for you to

13 intervene and oversee one of the collectors?

14 A. Correct.

15 Q. Do you understand you're responding

16 today on behalf of Arrow Financial Services?

17 A. Yes, I do.

18 Q. Have you been authorized to do so?

19 A. Yes, I have.

20 Q. Have you had a chance to review the

21 Notice of Deposition in the case?

22 A. No, I have not.

23 MR. MOTLEY: I've got it here. We just

24 got that in I think yesterday.

25 Q. (BY MR. Szwak:) Let me ask you, do you

7

1 believe that you're capable of testifying to the

2 facts involved in this case?

3 A. Yes, I do.

4 Q. How long have you worked for Arrow?

5 A. Twenty years.

6 Q. Are you an owner of the company or --

7 A. Yes, I am.

8 Q. You are an owner of the company?

9 A. Yes, I am.

10 Q. Are you the owner --

11 A. No.

12 Q. -- or are there other owners?

13 A. There's other owners.


14 Q. It's not a public company, is it?

15 A. No, it's not.

16 Q. Are all of your offices located in

17 Illinois?

18 A. No, they are not.

19 Q. You have some in California also?

20 A. One in California, one in Wisconsin.

21 Q. What other states do you have offices

22 in?

23 A. Wisconsin and New York.

24 Q. Are those simply other satellite

25 collection offices, or do they have different

8

1 functions?

2 A. Wisconsin and San Diego are collection

3 offices. New York is they really just do modeling

4 type work.

5 Q. When you say "modeling," what do you

6 mean by that?

7 A. They look at portfolios that we

8 purchase.

9 Q. Is all of the credit reporting aspect

10 conducted in the Illinois office?

11 A. Correct.


12 Q. Did you assist in the compilation of

13 records to produce in this case in the disclosures?

14 A. Yes, I have.

15 Q. Did you have an ability to research all

16 of your records and satisfy yourself that you had

17 produced everything involved in this case?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Tell me a little bit about what all

20 Arrow Financial Services does?

21 A. Pretty much we're a collection shop.


22 We do both. We purchase that, and we also do

23 contingency collection work.

24 Q. Do you-all also have your own system in

25 order to report credit reporting information?


9

1 A. We have a package system. It's called

2 Ontario Systems Facs, F-A-C-S.


3 Q. And you report in Metro II format?

4 A. Yes.


5 Q. Do you consider credit reporting one of

6 your chief means of collecting debts?

7 A. No.


8 Q. What are your chief means of collecting

9 debts at Arrow?

10 A. Telephone and letter contact.

11 Q. Do you report each of your accounts to

12 the credit bureaus?

13 A. Each of our purchase accounts.


14 Q. So are there any accounts that you

15 don't report to the credit bureaus?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Which are those?

18 A. The contingency clients.

19 Q. What is the distinction between your

20 straight collections account and your contingent

21 client accounts?

22 A. Contingent clients we do a contingent

23 fee. So no collection. We receive no dollars. If

24 we purchase the account, then we own the account.

25 And same scenario basically though, but the dollars

10

1 are ours to keep.

2 Q. In this particular case did you

3 purchase the fraud related Associates account?

4 A. Yes, we did.


5 Q. I was reviewing the answer that was

6 filed in this case, and I understand that you

7 didn't personally prepare it. I believe Arrow

8 agrees that for some period of time you-all

9 attempted to collect an account which you

10 designated with a number 2747472?

11 A. I would have to look at the notes.

12 That's very possible.


13 Q. If I represent to you that that's the

14 account number from Arrow, you-all did attempt to

15 collect it for some time?

16 A. Yes.


17 Q. Tell me how you-all went about

18 collecting this particular account?

19 A. Okay. To be totally honest, from what

20 I've seen on the notes, we really did not do much

21 collection at all. The first letter was returned

22 as a mail return, and the account actually sat

23 there till I believe January of '99 in which we got

24 an incoming call, because we weren't able to do any

25 outbound. We had no information.

11

1 Q. If I understand correctly, the

2 identifiers associated with that particular account

3 were the name Harmane Mixon and an address in

4 Houston, Texas, and my client's Social Security

5 number; is that correct?

6 A. That would be correct.


7 Q. Let me just ask you generally in

8 connection with that account, did you-all make any

9 calls?

10 A. If you have the notes, I would be more

11 than glad to review them.

12 Q. We'll look at that in just a minute.

13 You said do you remember that there were some

14 letters sent?

15 A. Well, no. A letter was sent and

16 returned. That's what I recall, and if we made any

17 calls after the January contact, I would have to

18 look at the notes.

19 Q. The subject letter, is it your

20 understanding that letter was sent to the Houston

21 address?

22 A. I believe so, yes.

23 Q. Did you-all do credit reporting in

24 connection with that account?

25 A. Yes.


12

1 Q. To whom did you report credit

2 information?

3 A. Would have went to all three credit

4 bureaus, which would be Equifax, Transunion, and

5 Experian.


6 Q. Were there any other collection

7 activities in connection with that account?

8 A. None that I'm aware of.


9 Q. Based upon your review of all of the

10 records and information at Arrow, do you know of

11 anything that the plaintiffs could have done to

12 resolve this matter insofar as Arrow any better

13 than they did?

14 A. No. I have no idea what they could

15 have done.


16 Q. Do you feel like that from your review

17 of all the records that when Mrs. Mixon contacted

18 you that she accurately conveyed to you what the

19 problem was?

20 A. Yes.


21 Q. Do you know of any reason that you

22 might believe that somehow the Mixons were at fault

23 in causing this problem?

24 A. I have no idea.


25 Q. Would you agree with me that the harm

13

1 that came upon the plaintiffs in this case was as a

2 result of the credit reporting aspect of the

3 collection activity?

4 A. Would I agree that the harm?

5 Q. Right.

6 A. I can only assume that to be the case.

7 Q. In the review of the records that

8 you've looked at, was that pretty much Mrs. Mixon's

9 principal complaint --

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. -- that there was credit reporting, and

12 it was on her credit report, right?

13 A. Correct.

14 Q. Have you-all brought any claims against

15 Associates Financial Services in connection with

16 them providing you an account which was fraud

17 related?

18 A. By claim what do you mean, litigation,

19 filed suit?

20 Q. Litigation or demand upon them to

21 purchase the account back?

22 A. We've done a demand as far as there is

23 in the contract a hold harmless agreement.


24 Q. So then they would be responsible back

25 to you for your purchase price of the account?


14

1 A. Correct.


2 Q. Can you generally describe for me the

3 relationship between Arrow and Associates

4 Financial?

5 A. There's a -- they are a -- what would

6 they be. They would be our -- they would be a

7 customer in which -- actually we're their

8 customer. We would purchase their --

9 Q. There's no ownership, common ownership

10 between these entities?

11 A. No.

12 Q. It's just a straight customer

13 relationship with them?

14 A. That is correct.

15 Q. Do you know when you-all obtained that

16 fraud related Associates' account?

17 A. Again, from my recollection I believe

18 it was purchased February of '98, and, again, if I

19 can see the notes, I would be able to give you

20 exact dates.

21 Q. Is that roughly when you remember it?

22 A. That's what I recall.

23 Q. Did you-all acquire it in a bulk

24 transfer, or was it a single account that you

25 purchased?

15

1 A. Bulk transfer.

2 Q. Did anyone at Associates ever inform

3 you that they were aware of some prior disputes

4 pertaining to that account?

5 A. No.


6 Q. When it was sold to you, it was sold as

7 a valid outstanding account?

8 A. Correct.


9 Q. And you had no idea that the plaintiffs

10 had previously disputed this matter to credit

11 reporting agencies and/or Associates?

12 A. Correct. We had no idea.

13 Q. I've got your records that you provided

14 us in your disclosure.

15 A. Okay.

16 Q. So that you may refer to them if you

17 need to. Can you review your records and tell me

18 exactly what you-all did when you first got the

19 account and when you actually got it?

20 A. We first actually listed it on our

21 computer system February 12th, 1998. Therefore, we

22 probably would have received the account I would

23 guess approximately a week prior to that date.

24 Q. Did you-all send out any letters

25 according to your notes?


16

1 A. First letter was sent on February 19th,

2 1998.

3 Q. Were there any phone calls made at that

4 time?

5 A. No. There were none.

6 Q. Did you ever make any phone calls to

7 any of the telephone numbers listed?

8 A. No, we did not.

9 Q. There was never any phone call made?

10 A. No, sir.

11 Q. How many total letters went out in

12 connection with this account?

13 A. One letter.

14 Q. In this particular case did you

15 authorize all three of the credit bureaus to report

16 your data on a monthly basis, or how often did you

17 report it?

18 A. We reported it monthly.


19 Q. And you're familiar with the fact that

20 the credit reporting agencies then disseminate that

21 information on to other subscribers and persons who

22 request the person's credit report?

23 A. That's correct.


24 Q. What is the status of the information

25 that you reported in connection with that account?


17

1 Is it reported as a collection with an R-9 rating?

2 A. No. It's reported as a collection

3 account.


4 Q. Do you actually assign a nine rating to

5 those accounts, or does the credit reporting

6 agency?

7 A. No. It's not reported with any kind of

8 rating. It's reported under a collection account.

9 Rating systems are used for the creditors.


10 Q. According to the records at your

11 company, when did you-all first learn that

12 Mrs. Mixon was complaining about this information

13 appearing on her credit reports?

14 A. January 5th, 1999.

15 Q. And how did you learn about that?

16 A. Mrs. Mixon phoned the office.

17 Q. And do you have some notes which you

18 can decode for me and tell me what Mrs. Mixon said

19 to your company?

20 A. Customer called; her name

21 Carolyn Henderson Mixon; said she's disputing this,

22 that she has several other accounts opened by

23 somebody with her Social; advised her to send

24 letter of dispute. Social Security number is hers
.

25 Q. Would those notes reflect that she was


18

1 complaining about an application fraud situation?

2 A. I would assume so.


3 Q. Who spoke to Carol at that time?

4 A. Emma DeLeon.

5 Q. Was she a collector assigned to that

6 particular account?

7 A. I do not know.

8 Q. Do you-all have that situation at your

9 company where a particular account is assigned to a

10 particular collector, or are they just generally

11 handled by whomever picks up the phone?

12 A. Yeah. An incoming call like that, it's

13 anybody could actually have handled the account.

14 Q. What was Ms. DeLeon's title?

15 A. She's a collector.

16 Q. As a result of Mrs. Mixon's dispute,

17 did you-all conduct any reinvestigation of her

18 complaint on January 5?

19 A. No. Actually Ms. DeLeon I believe

20 Mrs. Mixon moved the account into a disputed

21 disposition code.


22 Q. Now moving it into a disputed

23 disposition code would prevent you-all from

24 engaging in any letter writing or affirmative calls

25 to Mrs. Mixon, right?

19

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. That would not cease any credit

3 reporting, would it?

4 A. Well, yes, it would.


5 Q. Would it actually retract prior credit

6 reportings by the company?

7 A. Yes, it would.


8 Q. So as of January 5, 1999, you-all would

9 have issued notice to each of the three credit

10 reporting agencies to cease any previous reportings

11 by your company?

12 A. That would be correct.


13 Q. And it would certainly terminate any

14 future reportings by your company?

15 A. That is correct.


16 Q. Now, subsequent to January 5 of 1999,

17 did you-all ever take any other action with regard

18 to the credit reporting issue?

19 A. No, we did not.

20 Q. So after January 5, 1999, you never

21 wrote the credit bureaus again or made any other

22 affirmative reporting to them by way of tape?

23 A. Well, we wrote them in October.

24 Q. And you're referring to Arrow document

25 No. 6 which is a UDF form?

20

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. Universal data form?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. And on October 13 of 1999, did you

5 submit Arrow No. 6 to the three credit reporting

6 agencies, Equifax, Experian, and Transunion?

7 A. Yes, we did.

8 Q. And what was the purpose of the

9 universal data form?

10 A. I got a phone call from Mr. Motley

11 telling me that the information was still on

12 Mrs. Mixon's report and asked us to issue the form
.

13 Q. And you-all indicated to the credit

14 reporting agencies on October 13 of 1999, that the

15 information had been reported in error and that you

16 wished to have it removed?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. Now if I understand, between January 5

19 of 1999 and October 13 of 1999, in that time

20 period, there were no actions taken by Arrow

21 Financial Services to affirmatively report any

22 information in connection with the account, nor any

23 action taken in order to retract any information

24 previously reported; is that correct?

25 A. That would be correct.

21

1 Q. When this lawsuit was filed by the

2 Mixons in federal court in Texas, did you actually

3 receive a copy of the complaint?

4 A. I don't know.

5 Q. When is the first time that you saw any

6 document pertaining to the lawsuit that had been

7 filed?

8 A. Pertaining to it itself I have not seen

9 anything that's been actually filed, just have been

10 informed about it.

11 Q. From your records does it indicate that

12 your company received a copy of this lawsuit in or

13 about May of 1999?

14 A. No, it does not.

15 Q. No?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Have you ever seen the actual complaint

18 that was filed in this case?

19 A. No, I have not.

20 Q. Subsequent to May of 1999, did anyone

21 actually review this particular account to review

22 the complaints raised in the lawsuit?

23 A. I do not know for a fact. I would

24 assume our general counsel did though.

25 Q. What is the name of the general

22

1 counsel?

2 A. Lance Martin.

3 Q. And I don't want you to disclose to me

4 any communications between you and your attorney,

5 but if I understand correctly, you were made aware

6 that some of the national credit reporting agencies

7 were still reporting the fraud related Arrow

8 collection account in October of 1999?

9 A. That is correct.


10 Q. And at that time you took the steps to

11 submit a universal data form?

12 A. That is correct.


13 Q. Is Ms. DeLeon still employed by your

14 company?

15 A. Yes, she is.

16 Q. And is she in the California office or

17 the Illinois office?

18 A. California.

19 Q. Do your records indicate that

20 Ms. DeLeon had been contacted by any third persons

21 in connection with the fraud related account?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Tell me about those contacts.

24 A. Credco--and I'm not sure if that's a

25 company or that's just an abbreviation--called to


23

1 verify the Social Security of the customer; told

2 lady I cannot release information without

3 customer's authorization.

4 Q. What date was that contact?

5 A. January 5th.

6 Q. So if I understand correctly, on

7 January 5 Mrs. Mixon called, and she was

8 complaining about the Arrow account, the fraud

9 related account; is that correct?

10 A. That is correct.

11 Q. And then also on January 5th, Credco,

12 which I'll represent to you is a mortgage reporting

13 company, contacted you-all in order to try to

14 verify the Social Security number of Mrs. Mixon?

15 A. Correct. Credco actually called first.

16 Q. Credco called you first, and then

17 Mrs. Mixon followed up?

18 A. Yes. After Credco was given the

19 information that we would not release any

20 information because of third party disclosure, my

21 assumption is that Credco contacted Mrs. Mixon.

22 Mrs. Mixon then contacted us.

23 Q. Let me ask you, on January 5 of 1999,

24 when you-all notified the credit reporting agencies

25 to retract the prior reportings, how was that done?


24

1 A. That would have been done via the tape.

2 Q. In your investigation in connection

3 with this lawsuit and your testimony today, have

4 you found any records which indicate that you-all

5 did actually notify the credit reporting agencies

6 to delete the information on January 5?

7 A. Yeah. According to the notes on the

8 system the credit reporting flag was changed from

9 yes to no which would create a deletion record.


10 Q. It would create a deletion record

11 automatically?

12 A. Yes.


13 Q. And then that deletion record would be

14 then transmitted to all three of the credit

15 reporting agencies?

16 A. That would be correct.


17 Q. What difference would there be between

18 changing the tape reporting and the universal data

19 form?

20 A. One is automated. One is not.


21 Q. So you-all attempted to in an automated

22 fashion delete the information on January 5 of

23 1999, and then later in October when you found out

24 that it had not been deleted, you went through the

25 manual process?


25

1 A. That is correct.


2 Q. Did you ever receive any verification

3 from the three credit reporting agencies that they

4 had taken care of this in October?

5 A. No, we have not.

6 Q. Did you find that Ms. DeLeon had any

7 other conversations with third persons other than

8 Credco?

9 A. No. Ms. DeLeon did not talk to any

10 other third party.

11 Q. Did she have any subsequent

12 conversations with Mrs. Mixon?

13 A. Yes, she did.

14 Q. On what date would that have been?

15 A. January 11th.

16 Q. So this would be roughly six days

17 later?

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. And can you tell me from your records

20 what the substance of the conversation was?

21 A. Customer called again; told she's

22 sending documents by fax; told she's building a

23 house, and this is on her credit. She complained

24 about it; cannot decipher what that means after she

25 complained about it; asked if she would like to

26

1 settle in full, told no; then she started using

2 foul language; told her she doesn't have to do foul

3 language; then she asks for SU, which is

4 supervisor; later on she hung up
.


5 Q. It sounds to me like from the notes

6 that Mrs. Mixon called again and was really

7 pressing your company to take care of this credit

8 reporting matter; is that true?

9 A. I don't know.

10 Q. Well, she had called you back for the

11 purpose of continuing to complain that this

12 information was appearing on her mortgage report?

13 A. That is correct. Right.


14 Q. And in connection with that, at some

15 point Ms. DeLeon asked Mrs. Mixon if she would like

16 to settle and pay the account in full; is that

17 true?

18 A. She did look -- yes. She did ask for a

19 settlement.


20 Q. If Mrs. Mixon had been complaining that

21 this was a fraud account, there would be no reason

22 for her to have to pay that account, would it?

23 A. No. There would not be.


24 Q. Why would -- I mean, would it be part

25 of the practices of Arrow Financial Services to


27

1 suggest to a fraud victim that they are responsible

2 for the account, maybe if they paid it in full,

3 they could get it taken care of faster?

4 A. No.


5 Q. When you reviewed those notes in the

6 record, is that in keeping with the practices at

7 Arrow Financial Services?

8 A. Is what in keeping?

9 Q. Suggesting to Mrs. Mixon that she

10 should settle the account in full?

11 A. I don't know how the conversation went,

12 so I have no idea.

13 Q. Assuming that Mrs. Mixon had related to

14 Ms. DeLeon that this was causing her a tremendous

15 amount of problem in trying to obtain a mortgage,

16 that Arrow was reporting on the mortgage report,

17 and Ms. DeLeon responded in kind by suggesting that

18 Mrs. Mixon pay the account in full, do you think

19 that if Mrs. Mixon became quite irate that that

20 would be an unreasonable thing for her to have

21 responded?

22 A. If that's what happened, no, I wouldn't

23 think so at all.


24 Q. Now, can you tell me at what point or

25 if any did David Williams actually handle this


28

1 particular account for your company?

2 A. David Williams, I do not see any notes

3 from David Williams on this.

4 Q. What about Andrea Wheeler, did she ever

5 become involved in this account?

6 A. Looks like possibly on 6/1/99.

7 Q. What was occurring on that particular

8 day?

9 A. Says assignee phoned in; wanted to know

10 if customer gave any info on account to us; gave

11 her all the info we have; requested account being

12 fraud; said she's faxing us statement.

13 Q. The assignee on the account would be

14 who?

15 A. Associates.

16 Q. And they had phoned you-all for what

17 purpose?

18 A. I don't have enough notes to tell you.

19 Evidently something happened.

20 Q. According to the notes that are there

21 in your records, does that make any sense to you

22 what was occurring on June 1 of 999?

23 A. It seems like at that point the

24 assignee, being Associates, must have determined it

25 to be a fraud and didn't want us to do any further



29

1 collection itself.

2 Q. And what was Arrow's response to

3 Associates on that date?

4 A. We had already -- it was already

5 considered a fraud to us. So nothing more for us

6 to do.

7 Q. And Andrea Wheeler would have been the

8 person who communicated with Associates on that

9 date?

10 A. That would be correct.

11 Q. Is that the only activity Ms. Wheeler

12 had in connection with that account?

13 A. That is correct.

14 Q. Now can you tell me if Emma Guillerma

15 was involved in way in that account?

16 A. Guillerma and DeLeon is the same.

17 Q. They're the same person? That's

18 Ms. DeLeon?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. What about Andrew, is it Vigara?

21 A. Yes. Yes. He handled a call on

22 January 11th.

23 Q. When you say he handled the call on

24 January 11, was that the call with Mrs. Mixon?

25 A. Yes.


30

1 Q. Was he the Arrow Representative who

2 suggested to her that she should pay the account in

3 full?

4 A. He's the supervisor, and his notes

5 indicate her name is Carol Mixon; Social Security

6 number is hers but never heard of Harmane or

7 Charmane, aside from seeing the name on other fraud

8 accounts; previous address on file is a vacant

9 building; disputing party has already followed up

10 on info.

11 Q. Would it be correct to say that

12 Mrs. Mixon had talked to Ms. DeLeon on January 11.

13 She became quite irate and asked to speak to the

14 supervisor, and then ultimately Andrew got on the

15 phone with her. And Mrs. Mixon again conveyed her

16 complaints regarding the Arrow account?

17 A. Yes.


18 Q. What action did Andrew take as a result

19 of his communication with her on January 11?

20 A. Again, he left the account in the

21 disputed disposition. He had made the note that

22 she had already followed up and sent the

23 information in.


24 Q. Is it true that Mrs. Mixon faxed to

25 your company by telefax on January 5, 1999, all of


31

1 the information you-all had requested in the form

2 of a police report and a letter of dispute?

3 A. I don't have firsthand information on

4 that.

5 Q. I believe it's right here on Arrow

6 No. 1 with a fax ledger showing your fax?

7 A. Then she would have faxed it that day

8 then.

9 Q. So you-all did receive it at that time?

10 A. I can assume so, yes.

11 Q. Did Carmen Larson ever become involved

12 in this particular account?

13 A. No.

14 Q. What is Carmen's job title with Arrow?

15 A. She's clerical staff in our Wisconsin

16 office.

17 Q. Does she handle the credit reporting

18 function --

19 A. No.

20 Q. -- or any -- she's just simply a

21 clerical?

22 A. Clerical person.

23 Q. What about Marian Saylers who's

24 identified on Arrow No. 4?

25 MR. MOTLEY: Where is it, David?


32

1 MR. Szwak: Right there. Your pen is

2 almost on top of it.

3 THE WITNESS: No. She had no contact

4 with the party. She was the actual account member

5 that was assigned to it.

6 Q. (BY MR. Szwak:) Now the letter that

7 Mrs. Mixon sent to you-all on January 5 of 1999,

8 which I believe is Arrow Document No. 1?

9 A. Okay.

10 Q. Are you satisfied that that's a good

11 and accurate dispute by Mrs. Mixon?

12 A. Yes.


13 Q. And did she also fax to you on Arrow

14 Document No. 2 and 3 a copy of the Houston police

15 report that she was able to obtain?

16 A. Yes. Those were faxed on January 12th.

17 Q. Okay. You received those documents on

18 January 12?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. That's according to the telefax?

21 A. To the telefax.

22 Q. The letter is dated January 11?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. On your Arrow Document No. 4 there is a

25 area which is designated by 2, capital DSP,


33

1 disputed account, no CBR, can you tell me -- can

2 you decode that information for me?

3 A. She moved the account into the -- it

4 was removed from a route group from the credit

5 bureau through what we call an SM, being smart

6 disposition to DSP. So that means as soon as it

7 goes into that disposition the system creates a

8 deletion record and reported the -- change the

9 report to credit bureau from a Y to an N.


10 Q. And that was all on January 5?

11 A. That's correct.

12 Q. Let me ask you, there's an April 6 of

13 1998 notation showing it was transferred from ATM

14 to AMS. Can you decode that for me?

15 A. April?

16 Q. 6th.

17 MR. MOTLEY: Yeah, '98, right here.

18 THE WITNESS: That's just a collector

19 transfer, would have gone from one collector's unit

20 to another collector's unit.

21 Q. (BY MR. Szwak:) What are those two

22 different units that are listed there?

23 A. I would have to look them up. I do not

24 know. They are two collectors within the company.

25 So they may have been -- the account may have

34

1 resided in one office, and then would have been

2 transferred to another office.

3 Q. From your review of that record if the

4 account were absolutely frozen as of January 5 of

5 1999, there was to be no further collection

6 activity and no further credit reportings of any

7 kind, was there any reason for there to be some

8 activity in transferring this file between

9 collectors?

10 A. It was transferred before the issue of

11 January. This was transferred April of '98.

12 Q. April of '98?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. If I understand correctly, after

15 you-all sent the first letter sometime in February

16 of '98, and it came back that no one accepted it at

17 the address, you-all stopped sending letters on

18 that account?

19 A. That's correct.

20 Q. The collector who is notated by as ED3,

21 is that Ms. DeLeon?

22 A. That is correct.

23 Q. And the collector noted as AV3, which

24 collector is that?

25 A. That's Andrew.


35

1 Q. On January 11 there was a reference to

2 the disputing party already has F/U on information,

3 what does that mean?

4 A. Follow up, that they follow up, they

5 send in the information.


6 Q. Was that an indication that Mrs. Mixon

7 had complied with your request?

8 A. Yes.


9 Q. Now on June 14 of 1999, was there a

10 communication with Rels Reporting Company, another

11 mortgage reporting company?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Can you decode that for me and tell me

14 what the substance of that communication was?

15 A. Randall from Rels Reporting Service

16 stated customer is trying to get report of CBR.

17 Rhonda stated customer -- looks like she just says

18 it was a fraud, but her name and Social Security

19 number are the same. And they have said customer

20 should be calling to get this taken care of very

21 soon.

22 Q. So Rels Reporting indicated to you

23 again that Mrs. Mixon was complaining about some

24 fraud related accounts on her report?

25 A. That's what it looks like.


36

1 Q. And did she indicate to you at that

2 time that there was an Arrow account on the report?

3 A. No information relating to that in the

4 notes. I don't know.

5 Q. Would there be any other reason for

6 Rels Reporting to be contacting you in June of 1999

7 if you had already deleted it in January of '99?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Would it be safe to assume that Rels

10 Reporting contacted you-all because your account

11 was still appearing on Mrs. Mixon's credit report?

12 A. Yes.


13 Q. There's an indication down here that

14 Rels Reporting indicated to Arrow that the

15 customer, Mrs. Mixon, should have been calling to

16 get this taken care of very soon; is that correct?

17 A. That is correct.

18 Q. But according to your own records,

19 Mrs. Mixon had already been in contact with you

20 with regard to this matter, correct?

21 A. That is correct.


22 Q. What was done on June 14 of 1999 in

23 order to look into this phone call from Rels

24 Reporting?

25 A. File was left in the dispute history.



37

1 Q. If Arrow was put on notice in June of

2 1999 that their account was still being reported,

3 and Rels Reporting contacted them in order to

4 discuss Mrs. Mixon's dispute; and you had in your

5 fingertips notes indicating that you believe that

6 you had previously deleted it through tape

7 reporting, was there any process in order to follow

8 up on this and find out why this is still appearing

9 on this lady's credit report?

10 A. I would have to look up who handled

11 that. WA2 handled it. I have no idea who that

12 would be.


13 Q. In your disclosure, do we have the

14 identity of the person who is WA2? Do you know who

15 that is in the company structure?

16 A. No, not without looking it up.

17 Q. I would assume that the designator

18 three means the California office?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. Is that correct?

21 A. That's correct.

22 Q. Which means the number two designator

23 must mean some other office of Arrow, true?

24 A. Wisconsin.

25 Q. Would that be the Illinois office,


38

1 New York office, Wisconsin office?

2 A. Wisconsin.

3 Q. Now why would the Wisconsin office be

4 working on this particular file if it had

5 previously been handled apparently exclusively by

6 the California office?

7 A. I can only make an assumption.

8 Actually when you asked me the question regarding

9 Rels, it may not have been an assumption that the

10 account was on the credit bureau, now that I look

11 at it. It may have gone -- the phone call from

12 Rels may have gone to Associates who would have

13 directed to the California and to the Wisconsin

14 office who handles the calls with the customers.


15 Q. So if I understand correctly, if

16 Mrs. Mixon had called and complained to Associates

17 or if anyone else such as Rels Reporting had called

18 to complain to Associates, Associates would have by

19 agreement with you been required to contact the

20 Wisconsin office of Arrow?

21 A. Correct.


22 Q. But based upon the fact that this

23 person from Rels Reporting is calling, is there not

24 an indication here that there's some reporting

25 problem in connection with Mrs. Mixon's credit

39

1 reports?

2 A. Not with us necessarily, no.

3 Q. But what was done in order to

4 investigate this problem in June of 1999?

5 A. Nothing was done on our end to

6 investigate the problem.


7 Q. Did you-all have Mrs. Mixon's correct

8 telephone number on file at that time?

9 A. I don't know what Mrs. Mixon's phone

10 number is.

11 Q. I believe it's the 933 telephone

12 number, 318-933- --

13 A. 8614?

14 Q. -- 8614?

15 A. Yes. We do have that.

16 Q. So her home telephone number was on

17 file, but no one made any efforts, for example, to

18 call her on that date and discuss this with her?

19 A. It's a fraud account. If you'll notice

20 by the phone number there's an H there which means

21 hold, do not call. So the system will not allow us

22 to make a phone call.

23 Q. So the system would not allow you to

24 make collection calls to her?

25 A. Correct.


40

1 Q. Would the Wisconsin office be engaged

2 in the collection activity, or would they be in a

3 position to be able to make regular phone calls in

4 order to follow up on disputed matters?

5 A. Could you repeat the question?

6 Q. Sure. Would the Wisconsin office who

7 was contacted by Rels Reporting have the ability to

8 pick up the phone and call Mrs. Mixon and say,

9 look, we got a phone call today from Rels

10 Reporting, mortgage reporting company, apparently

11 they are still trying to help you get a mortgage.

12 We don't know what the problem is, but they called

13 us?

14 A. That would not be the procedure because

15 the account was already in dispute, told them that

16 we had it as a fraud account.

17 Q. If I understand from those notes on

18 June 14 of 1999 and again on June 21 of 1999, there

19 were additional notations indicating disputed

20 hyphen no credit bureau. Those actually mean that

21 someone went in and again posted a note to insure

22 that this was not being reported to the credit

23 bureaus?

24 A. They just left it in that disposition.

25 That disposition is the disposition that makes sure







41

1 the accounts are not reported.

2 Q. Does that disposition ever fall off of

3 the report or cease to be in effect and allow the

4 reporting to continue again?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Is it a periodic review?

7 A. No, just -- it's a frozen disposition.

8 When something is in there, it stays in there.


9 Q. I'm just curious why those entries

10 would need to be made on June 14 and June 21 of

11 1999 if it was already in that status?

12 A. They would have pulled it up on that

13 date, and, let's see here, June 14th is when the

14 call came in. So they just -- that's the

15 disposition it was already in. They left it in

16 there, and that's the way they set out the date.

17 Q. Did Arrow begin reporting this fraud

18 related account in January or February of 1998?

19 A. It would have been -- let's see, the

20 system February, probably would have been reported

21 on the March tape, March of '98. Could have

22 possibly been April '98.

23 Q. Have you reviewed any of Mrs. Mixon's

24 credit reports?

25 A. No, I have not.

42

1 Q. If I were to represent to you that none

2 of the 1998 credit reports that I saw indicated

3 that account possibly until late December of '98,

4 do you know if there was some reason why the Arrow

5 account would not have been reporting until late

6 '98 or early '97 (sic)?

7 A. No, I do not
.

8 Q. On January 12 of 1999, do any of your

9 records reflect that on that particular date that

10 Arrow made any reporting in connection with this

11 fraud related account?

12 A. January 12?

13 Q. Yes, sir, of 1999?

14 A. No. We did nothing on January 12.

15 Q. You-all didn't inquire into

16 Mrs. Mixon's credit report?

17 A. Not from what I see, no.

18 Q. You-all didn't report any information

19 affirmatively?

20 A. No.

21 Q. No universal data form sent?

22 A. No universal data forms.

23 Q. Did you-all ever receive any CDVs

24 ACDVs, consumer dispute verification forms?

25 A. I have no idea.


43

1 Q. I'm sorry, you said no idea?

2 A. I have no idea if we received one.

3 Q. Where would those records be kept?

4 A. We wouldn't keep them. We would have

5 filled them out and sent them back.

6 Q. And you-all did not keep a copy for

7 your own protection?

8 A. No, we do not.

9 Q. According to your records, did you-all

10 ever receive a payment from the imposter in this

11 case?

12 A. No, we did not.

13 Q. I'm going to show you a document -- let

14 me first ask you, are you generally familiar with

15 reading credit reports?

16 A. Yes, I am.

17 Q. I want to show you a document which has

18 been marked as Exhibit B in Linda Turner's

19 deposition taken in this case, and see if you could

20 review that document and tell me what that is?

21 A. It's a credit report.

22 Q. And who is the named consumer on that

23 report?

24 A. Carol Cole Mixon.

25 Q. And what address is affiliated with


44

1 her?

2 A. 14979 Keatchie Road, Keithville,

3 Louisiana.

4 Q. And what's the date of that report?

5 A. Report 9/20/1999.

6 Q. And as you review the report, I believe

7 down at the bottom there is an indication as to

8 which credit reporting agency had issued that

9 report. Can you tell me from reviewing that

10 document?

11 A. Experian.

12 Q. Is that in the same general format that

13 you're used to seeing credit reports produced to

14 subscribers?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Now on that particular report can you

17 identify an Arrow Financial Service account

18 appearing on the report?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Now what you've told me today is is

21 that this item should not be on that report, that

22 you-all had stopped making any affirmative

23 reportings, and you-all had also sent notice to the

24 credit bureaus to retract any such reportings; is

25 that true?


45

1 A. That's true.


2 Q. And yet you agree with me that it does

3 appear on the report that you're looking at?

4 A. Yes, I do.

5 Q. In connection with this trade line, are

6 you familiar with the months revie

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